Philosophy

?Is there a good or ?best? order in which to read the Dialogues of Plato?

Socrates and Plato ? Bite Size Chunks ? No. 4

(Posted by James Head - Autumn 2011)

Someone recently asked the following question on a Face book Group:

'I have been itching to really read the dialogues of Plato. And I finished ?Alcibiades I? last night; which has me wondering what would be the best order to read the other dialogues? Thanks!'

My reply was as follows:

Well M - " Alcibiades 1" was a great place to start - since apparently that is the book that new students to Plato's academy always studied first - especially in the academy's later years when people like Proclus were running things. I hope you got loud and clear the message of "Know Thyself" from Alcibiades 1 :)

As to what order - my natural instincts are to use your gut feelings as to what to read next, or wait for people's recommendations. With this in mind I will recommend you read "Symposium" next - and I have reasons for doing that.

I am writing to a very knowledgeable friend on Plato this morning ? Tim Addey, a founding member of the Prometheus Trust ? and I will also ask him if he has any advice about the order in which to read the dialogues. :)

Tim Addey replied as follows:

Dear James,

In the late academy they had an order of study divided into 10 dialogues for what one might describe as "graduates" and then 2 further ones for "post graduates"; they ran -

First Alcibiades - for the reasons already discussed

Gorgias - because it allows us to understand the social structure we find ourselves in

Phaedo - because it shows the philosophic life to come, and purifies us from over-attachment to outer concerns

Cratylus - which begins our intellectual training by discussing words and names, from which everyone who investigates ideas must start

Theaetetus - which is about knowledge, and whether it can be found in sense perceptions

Sophist - which clarifies the relationship of ideas to each other

Statesman - which deals with natural philosophy

Phaedrus - the first contemplative and theological dialogue

Symposium - the second contemplative and theological dialogue

Philebus - in which Plato treats of the Good which is beyond all things.

Timaeus - the "perfect" cosmological/physical (in the broadest sense) dialogue

Parmenides - the "perfect" theological dialogue

This is according to the Anonymous Prolegomena to the Study of Platonic Philosophy - a late 5th century primer written by a teacher either in the Athenian or the Alexandrian academy. He notes that the Republic, the Laws and the Letters should also be studied in order to consider what he calls the ideal, the adapted and the reformed states respectively.

The Prometheus Trust has recently run workshops on the Phaedo, the Symposium and the Phaedrus, because these are more accessible to modern thinkers - the thought-life of the public in the ancient world resting on various assumptions now no longer common.

As you know we have two dialogues, the First Alcibiades and the Symposium in "Students' Edition" paperbacks with some supporting essays and extracts from Plotinus and Proclus; we hope to have a new SE paperback on the Sophist out next month, at which point we'll turn our attention to one on the Phaedo and then another on the Phaedrus.

If I was advising a reader studying on his own, I'd probably suggest a reading of these in the following order: Alcibiades, Phaedo, Phaedrus, Symposium, Sophist. After that, I'd read the Apology, the Meno and then the Republic.

Hope that helps.

Best wishes, Tim.

- Bite Size Comments On ?parmenides? By Plato
Using Translation by H. N. Fowler / Heinemann(Note: Delightful short 2 -3 page introductions by Fowler) In my opinion it is the first 15 pages or so of this 35 page dialogue that are by far the most interesting. For me the latter pages are rather hard...

- "know Thyself" - Socrates Advises Alciabades - Who Wants To Put Himself Forward For Political Office.
Part A - The Importance to ?Know Thyself? (and to Know What the ?Self? Actually Is) ? and then Part B - Tips On How To Find the Correct Spiritual Path for You. The following two blog posts were originally written as one evening presentation - talk. I...

- Plato In A Nutshell
PLATO IN A NUTSHELL In this essay Tim Addey suggests that: 'Of all the philosophers whose writings have survived more or less intact, Plato is, I think, the most difficult to feel one has him and his meaning properly netted and secure.' ...

- Is The ?socratic? And ?platonic? Philosophical Tradition The Same Thing ?
Socrates & Plato - ?Bite Size Chunk? ? No. 1 (Posted by James Head - Autumn 2011) Is the ?Socratic? and ?Platonic? Philosophical Tradition the Same Thing ? People often talk about the Socratic-Platonic philosophical tradition as if they are the...

- Benjamin Jowett
Benjamin Jowett April 15th, 1817 to October 1st, 1893 Today is the birthdate of Benjamin Jowett [1817], English classical scholar, probably best known for his popular and scholarly translations of Plato's dialogs. I well-remember my two volume boxed...

Philosophy